Powercor is the Distributed Network Service Provider for central and western Victoria, as well as Melbournes western suburbs. The reason for this query, is that, in the past, my understanding has been that, in WA, where export limiting is apparently, banned by the gratuitously oppressive state parliament, and, where a limit of a 5kW output inverter, is allowed, for a single phase grid connection on the SWIS grid, a limit of 6.66 kW of panels generating capacity, is imposed for single phase connections to the SWIS grid, and, thence, the limit of panels generating capacity, to which the federal solar panels rebate applies, for such a connection, has been the 6.66kW. 0000029403 00000 n But you may as well just get a standard inverter and send your excess electricity into the grid. Powercor's network solutions manager Claire Cass said of 32,580 customers connected to solar with Powercor in the last 18 months, only 2023 could not export power. Have I been conned into believing I could produce up to 6.6kW myself, but in fact the maximum my inverter will ever allow through to the meter (and to my house) is only 5kW? (2nd one APPROVAL/SITE SPECIFIC CONDITION(s): Total Solar Export must be limited to 5kW). A rooftop solar system's grid export limit is determined by the local electricity network operator - sometimes on a case-by-case basis, sometimes according to an across-the-board standard, and . In contrast, most other network distributors set a strict upper limit on the size solar panel system you can install, typically 10kW for single-phase properties. I have not been able to get an answer from Growatt Australia yet, it seems there is a bit of a cover-up going on. Have a good christmas. Depending on their location, some may be constrained to a lesser export level or even no exports at all. Thanks Steve 0418 815 193. As batteries currently operate they charge from power in the morning that could otherwise be sold rather than from power that may not be able to be sold in the middle of the day. NSWs Endeavour Energy area: Western Sydney. Whats the logical and practical way forward? 60% lagging 0000009027 00000 n As the LG Chem battery charges using DC current from the panels it is possible to go over the 10 kW inverter limit by charging the LG Chem battery in the middle of the day. To me it does not quite make sense as no system can produce 100% of its capacity meaning my existing 3.5kW will never produce full 3.5kW (on a good day, I am lucky to get 2.5kW). While installing solar panels can still be worth it under these conditions, its a disincentive, increases payback time and is generally a pretty crappy state of affairs. Real names are preferred - you should be happy to put your name to your comments.2. Powercor says the Solar Hotspots initiative is the first stage of a five-year Future Networks program to support customer investment in solar power systems, electric vehicles and battery storage. 3. . Thanks. This applies to both single-phase and three-phase properties. Put down your weapons.3. All these profiles need to dance carefully around the problem. 0000007554 00000 n I believe it must have been set up during installation, but the installer company claims that this is handled by Growatt themselves. Its the same with kW and hours of solar electricity production. Were seeing a real lift in the number of customers able to export excess solar back into the grid in these areas, which were among the most constrained in our network only a few months ago, said Powercor General Manager Electricity Networks, Mark Clarke. This is because even if there is only a refrigerator running during the day it will reduce the losses from export limiting and if an effort is made to shift electricity consumption to the middle of the day then losses can be mostly or entirely eliminated. Solar Analytics confirms in this scenario its only exporting up to the limit; 3kw. First read the section How Export Limiting Works at the top of this thread. But, if you are living in an area where it is required to install a large solar system a situation around half of Australians are in then export limiting can allow a larger system with normally very minor losses of clean solar generation. The naming of zones may differ between manufacturers but may appear as: Australia A - applies to the configuration of inverter settings in Victoria and all Eastern . What inverter do you have? Victoria's "Hotest" Solar Postcode is 3977 at last look. Is this default, or would it be programmed in if the distributor required it? In addition, all modern solar inverters must comply with AS4777.2015 at least. We have a 3kwh system and are really using as much during the day as we can. Thank you. essential enrgy in central west nsw (Orange) are generally restricting to max 5kw export limit regardless of 1ph or 3ph: 2 x 3ph residential applications approvals cutnpaste below only difference was one specifically stated APPROVAL/SITE SPECIFIC CONDITION(s): Total Site to be export limited to 5kW 3 phase 1.66kW/per phase (and the padmount sub for the subdivision in on the property boundary) You could buy a battery, charge it on the weekend and export during week nights. Also, given that export limited inverters (supposedly) work the same, regardless of the grid to which they are connected, why is it so, that states have different rules whereby some allow export limited inverters, and, some do not? Just last week, Powercor (Western Victoria) advised that they now have more room in the grid for export. According to NT Power and Water they will normally allow up to a 5 kilowatt inverter with single phase power and up to a 7 kilowatt inverter with 3 phase power. If you are using Enphase microinverters which is extremely likely the whole system can be export limited using the Enphase Envoy gateway. Shane, you appear to be mixing up kW and kWh easily done! And, if a street full of these, plugs their cars into the grid, for recharging, starting the recharging between 1700 and 1800, lots of entertaining fireworks, along the street powerlines exploding. xref Can one have micro-inverter panels without a gateway, and how would that be limited? 5kW export limiter imposed on one inverter. 0000039018 00000 n The data has 5KW flat lining confirming more is being generated. My guess is that when the Envoy-S sees it needs to throttle due to export limits, it does this by sending the same instruction to all micros to throttle the same amount (but dont know for sure). How do I get around this with SAPN , am I allowed to export limit on a swer line in Sth Aust. The ideal way to measure the power flow in and out of your house would be to ask your existing electricity meter. But your situation is complicated by already having a 3 kilowatt system. <]/Prev 115522/XRefStm 1575>> The reason why your sisters inverter is different from yours is your Goodwe would be because yours has a current transformer device that lets it limit the amount of power it exports to the grid. If you can export 3kva that means you can have a solar system with up to 4 kilowatts of panels. I was really keen for this system with a battery as most of my power is used at night and I like the idea of power during blackouts, which do happen quite a lot here. 253 0% I was lucky to have an early approval, so limited to 10Kw (or due to bad calculation by the approver, 8.6Kw, where he said ALL the Neutral current went down the common Neutral wire, where in fact only the difference between the phases goes down the Neutral (2 phase, 180 degree). 352 0 obj <>stream you request 5kW and Powercor says you can only export 2.5kW) Set a 'zero export' limit - i.e. I was always of the belief that a 5kW inverter limited the total output/ production from my 6.5kW solar system to 5 kW, irrespective of what is being used in the house. SAPN has told me I cant have more than a 5 kw inverter , but thats just not enough. Im afraid thats a tough situation. 0000037497 00000 n I have divided Australias regions into three categories: The information below assumes the property is on the main grid. They hid the problem pretty well, because they do tend to reduce the amount of shutdowns. Even if I were exporting 100% of it, it still would only bring down my bills by a tiny amount per month. A condition of this basic connection offer is that all inverter energy systems must have the volt-watt and volt-var response modes enabled with the following settings: Seem most solar places, even the ones the go on about how good they are, arent that good when presented with this, what seems to be a conundrum for them. Or is there a build up of voltage in the system? My question is should that then eliminate the 5 kw inverter of the powerwall wich Energex claims is part of the 10kw allowance on a single phase? ), converting to up to 10kW of AC power, and, the GW5048D-ES provides for up to 6.65kW of panels generating capacity, converting to up to 4.95 kW of AC power, and, acting as a battery management system and UPS, when a battery system (of up to two approved, low voltage, batteries) is connected. We just had a 30kW inverter solar install for our business and it has been limited to 1.8kW export. As a single example, the Renault Kangoo ZE van (I think that it is the only battery powered cargo van currently available in Australia) has a 33kWh battery, and, To go further, Kangoo Z.E boasts a Z.E 33 (33kWh) battery, 0000029011 00000 n Solar customers who currently have a limit on the amount they can export are invited to contact Powercor to reapply for an export agreement based on the greater capacity now available on the network. STCs can be received for panel capacity up to one-third greater than the inverter capacity. This profile also doesnt impose any export limits, because Endeavour Energy didnt require them of my installation (maximum is 30kW for a 3-phase installation, which my one is well under). It seems so strange that it is clear government policy to get more solar going and yet the network operators are effectively blocking it now. March 2022 6 Powercor means Powercor Australia Limited, ABN 89 064 651 109. portal means the eConnect portal for CitiPower and . Thats a furphy from go to whoa. This 80% could translate to an estimated 50,000 current or potential solar customers able to export more solar to the grid. Real names are preferred - you should be happy to put your name to your comments.2. Only residential homes with inverters of 5 kilowatts or less can receive the states. Michael caught the solar power bug after purchasing components to cobble together a small off-grid PV system in 2008. What made the situation all the more frustrating is periods of high congestion which can threaten the stability of a local network can be quite brief. It is delivering 8 kilowatts of solar power. The whole system of domestic rooftop photovoltaic systems, needs to be reviewed; by both the legislatures and regulators, and, by the components (especially the inverters) manufacturers. About 50%. Victorias United Energy Network Area: A large chunk of Melbourne on the east side Port Phillip Bay and the Bayside Peninsula. My AS4777.2:2015 profile allows voltages up to 265v (for short periods, and shuts down on 10 minute averages above 258v). at night or not enough at day time ? This is disappointing as this would be an easy option to implement. Generally however, I can advise that Powercor intends to upgrade the network over the next 5 years, starting in January, however, the specifics of where upgrades are happening and the order has not been decided. sonnenBatterie Evo. In writing I was advised: I have previously posted (or, submitted for posting), the proposition that what is needed, is a hybrid (not meaning in this instance, a hybrid inverter as is commonly used) inverter that is like a cross/combination, of the Goodwe GW5000-MS inverter (or, kind of, the GW10K-MS, in terms of power conversion), and the Goodwe GW5048D-ES; three GW5000-MS provides for up to 10kW of panels generating capacity, across three MPPTs (strings? 100 litres alone means little, but if there are 100 litres per hour, this means 100 litre hours of output. ACTs EvoEnergy Network Area: Covers most homes in the ACT, especially in built-up areas. The uptake of solar has surprised the powers that be so they are basically wasting free energy and penalizing the producers in the process. House batteries should have the capability of being set to turn off when they are fully charged and then on towards the middle of the day. Im in the same situation, except I have an existing 5kW system. Furthermore, the sustained overvoltage inverter protection set point shall be set to 258V. VAr (var % rated VA) It also allows you to focus on increasing your self consumption which in turn provides a better return on investment. Also, if you are on the main grid the amount of power you are allowed to export can still be below the limits given or even zero, depending on how much additional solar capacity the local grid can handle at your location. No matter how badly you may want to export limit your solar system, it can only be done in locations where its permitted. Unfortunately, the inverters parameters such as Export Limitation are all password protected, and so far I have been unable to even determine who knows this password. A 5 kilowatt inverter will never supply more than 5 kilowatts of power no matter how many kilowatts of panels it has. I know in the movie the Bad was worse than the Ugly, but thats not the way Im doing it. Off the main grid, rural properties can have 3 kilowatts of inverter capacity. So the size of the system becomes irrelevant if you can only export 3kwh (we are Regional NSW Essential Energy). So basically the whole local industry is going to be cactus until this is resolved. At times MPPT1 is at 600 odd watts while MPPT2 is at 2500 odd watts. The word first can be confusing. If you are in the solar industry - try to get to the truth, not the sale.5. Allows installation but has an export limit. If they want a big solar system with an inverter larger than 5 kW, they must export limit the inverter. Typically in the Powercor area, the export limit is 5kW of exports for each single-phase household solar PV system. It is possible to max out the 10 kW inverter capacity with my Tesla, house load and Heat Pump hot water. So the solar inverter has to have its own energy meter installed in your switchboard one that talks to the inverter to tell it when power sent into the grid reaches the export limit. I am not even sure the inverter would support that, but I fear that sadly up to 25% of the PV energy might be going to waste! After all, Im a big picture kind of guy. Now, such a hybrid inverter, as I previously submitted as a post, as being needed, would have the capability of providing for up to 10kW of panels generating capacity, and, of power conversion of up to 10kW, to provide for up to 5kW to provide for charging a battery system, and, the other 5kW to provide for the household load and with surplus (to the household load, out of the 5kW provision) being exported to the grid. Thats a huge jump and even a smidge higher than the Powercor network wide average of 89%. Your dedicated meter will inform the inverter, and it will immediately reduce the power, so it doesnt exceed 5 kilowatts1. It owns and operates the states largest electricity distribution network, and is responsible for more than half a million poles and over 88,000 kilometres of powerlines. Please keep the SolarQuotes blog constructive and useful with these 5 rules: 1. Note that connections off the main grid are usually far more restricted. All is explained here: http://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/kw-and-kwh-what-is-the-difference/, ( 5kW per hour is a non-sensical unit unless you want to describe an acceleration of energy! Ill upgrade the Endeavour Energy area from Ugly to Bad, since things are clearly not all bad there. There are versions without this consumption monitoring (old Non -s version of Envoy and even the Envoy-S without consumption monitoring). It clicked, not long after I wrote the comment, My 10 kW system will not go above 10 kW unless my house battery is charging and then it can go to 13.25 kW. Nobody wants to see solar energy . Thanks so much, David. Quotes vary and the deal has to be value/advantage logical or whats the point. Households and small businesses that generate electricity using solar panels, wind turbines, or other small-scale generators, can feed back any unused electricity into the electricity grid for other customers to use. But you will probably find that there is another setting that it will shutdown when 10 minute average voltage is a measly 255v. This is sufficient to charge a battery, although larger solar systems generally improve the return from batteries. 0000038296 00000 n Can you provide comment and evaluation of power tracing please. People have done it at fairly low cost with second hand panels and a DC pump.) On a related note, we mentioned yesterday that over the border in South Australia, SA Power Networks is readying to ramp up flexible solar exports in an effort to support more solar installations and its pretty clever stuff. I realise that Australian legislatures do not care about the future, but, the future is coming, whether the legislatures like it or not. As your sister can presumably export as much power as her solar inverter can produce it wouldnt need this device. Weve seen a rapid growth in rooftop solar systems.With each installation, were facilitating rapid growth in the amount of solar capacity on our network. This is often referred to as 'network constraints'. So if an inverter that is export limited to 5 kilowatts is providing 8 kilowatts of power, none of it will go to waste provided the home is consuming at least 3 kilowatts at the time. Actually I made a chart showing the percentage of electricity lines in each state that were SWER but I left it out for the sake of brevity. I have a new residential PV system in Perth WA, 6.6kW total panel capacity and a 5kW inverter (Growatt Min 5000TL-X). But if you dont use much electricity it may need to be very small, as I explain here: https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/zero-kw-export-solar/. Powercor is telling increasing numbers of households looking to install new systems in this area they will have a zero export limit. So in effect I have two safety guards in place, 1. the 5kw limiter to the grit and 2. the extra Gateway . Sorry Andrew: NQR. The solar installer or customer must have sought and received pre-approval from us for the requested capacity of the generator. startxref The daily export limit is averaged across your billing period (calculated by multiplying the number of days in your billing period by your daily export limit of 14 kWh). Please stay on topic. Nominal Output Power (W) 5000 Or, if you want a lower cost method of dealing with blackouts, you can get yourself a small generator. The solar PV system is connected to the network via an inverter. Still a very long payback period, but not as long. As discussion of the topic of export limiting, is continuing, what,if any, is/are the direct effect differences to electricity grid load (as in the load on the wires, not the load as the term used for meaning demand), between a 5kW inverter, and a 10kW inverter with 5kW export limiting? 306 47 Some battery powered cars can not be programmed to only recharge at particular times of the day, and, so, if someone drives one to work (that is, if and when battery powered cars become affordable to the working class) and home after work, then puts the car on the charger, the drain to the grid, that would consequently occur, during peak demand hours, needs to be covered. As far as I know, only solar installers can apply for export capacity in the Powercor area. So it is unfortunate that it is necessary, but good that people can still install a larger system and generally have insignificant losses. Normally it makes more sense to buy a second, separate system, than to expand an existing one. The majority of customers are approved for the export level they request. We respect your privacy and you can opt out from the newsletter at any time. Was sure if its been configured correctly or if this is just how it works? We want to add a battery and it seems logical to add more cells also to another inverter/battery setup. ( Very true AL0126. Hi i want to install solar with no power Its becoming common for solar inverters to be export limited, so the maximum amount of power they send into the grid is less than theyre capable of providing. We might still be willing to do this all the same, from an environmental viewpoint. Voltage (V) measured at inverter terminals I can also see specific profiles for other grid networks, such as Ausgrid and Ergon, that likely have specific requirements of the inverters. Is there anything that can be done about it? I have solar on my house and having it installed at an investment property, but not sure what to do now as there will be no benefit of feed in tariff. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. As a side issue for you, if you (like lots of people) have high voltages issue causing shutdown / throttling, I am not a big fan of the Volt-watt modes, as often these modes will also lower the voltages at which the throttling kicks in. See image at http://www.johnrogers.com.au/battery_charging_noon.jpg, CORRECTION: My 13.25 kW system will not go above the 10 kW inverter limit unless my house battery is charging and then it can go to 13.25 kW. Amongst other things, AS4777.2015 has some requirements to shutdown on phase imbalance in a 3 phase setup. 220 In an Enphase system, that is with the Envoy-S with consumption monitoring. Will this mean any additional system would be limited to 0kW output?? Because you dont see the rather obvious shutdowns (or see them less), you might not notice your solar might be throttled back on a regular basis. For example, if you are export limited, only the Envoy-S with consumption monitoring can provide this. A man named Canute, proved that, centuries ago. After a major works program involving more than 500 different network alterations and other activities across nine key regions among the most constrained parts of the network, Powercors new solar connections export approval rate of just over 60% at the start of the year has increased to above 90%. I think the installers like the Volt-watt modes, because if you dont know where to look they hid the problem at your expense anyway. Even if you have the Envoy-S, I believe at least on paper there was a Enphase Envoy-S Even then, the losses from the limit are minor. Weve got a system that can be left alone in my opinion, so adding say 6.6kw and a 10kw battery makes good sense but what a task. Metered and a non metered version. ) Certainly this dumb meter is not capable of sending current from the inverter selectively to my home circuits and any excess to the grid? Im in the Endeavour Energy area. Store it and use it later (this requires solar battery storage), or it disappears into thin air via a heat sink. 44% leading By the time he was eight, he was already focused on using the power of the sun to stop fossil fuel emissions destabilizing the climate. You could approach SAPN and ask for special permission to install more solar capacity on an SWER but I would not be optimistic about that. So-called wasting of the extra electricity produced is irrelevant: sunlight is FREE, and whether I use it or not has no bearing on the environment. 0000028638 00000 n given that we are working from home all the time these days. Am I wrong? I am trying to get a system installed (6.5k smart hybrid inverter with a battery) and have been told by Western Power that I am limited to a 3.0 kva system. Any ideas of how I can get a system that is actually going to generate enough power to charge a battery? 0000037764 00000 n 0000037419 00000 n I have an existing 3.5kW PV system with Solis inverter. I wouldnt drive anything else. This certainly goes well beyond initial configuration and reporting. Australian network service providers (including CitiPower) use solar export limits to keep voltage levels in transmission lines operating within safe . If you dont get under the covers and look carefully at the logs you might miss this, or think it is a cloud coming over, rather than voltage triggered throttling. And doing so potentially puts you running in a non compliant state. Most systems have mostly N facing panels, so really only generate peak power for a few hours a day (often 10am>2pm approx) you aren't allowed to export any power from your solar system to the grid. 11kW panels with 10kW 3-phase inverter (Fronius Symo + Fronius 3-phase meter). In looking to the future, regardless of whether we like it, in spite of, and, despite, the great efforts of the WA state government, and its parent, the Australian feral LNP/ALP government, battery powered road vehicles will come to Australia, and, displace ICE vehicles. No unfortunately. Interesting article. Allows installation but has a zero export limit. So, I am pretty much left in the dark about whether all the energy my panels are theoretically producing is being utilised, or (which is my fearful assumption) up to 1.6kW are wasted whenever the panels produce more than 5kW AC. Activities part of Powercors Solar Hotspots program carried out over three months included upgrading infrastructure, adjusting tap settings on street-level transformers, balancing voltage levels on powerlines and various tweakery at zone substations. So an Enphase setup, without a continuously operating Envoy with not be providing this functionality and likely to raise some concerns in the AS4777.2015 certification process if they did not take steps to make sure these functions are always guaranteed to be implemented. Origin offers 8 cents per kWh until a daily export limit of 14 kWh is reached. Is this perhaps one of the well-kept secrets about the reality of residential solar production in Western Australia, one that neither the solar installers or inverter manufacturers, let alone Synergy or Western Power want to be publicly known? Anyway you are probably not supposed to be messing around with the profiles without agreement of your DNSP. Youll also start receiving the SolarQuotes weekly newsletter, keeping you up to date on all the latest developments on Australias solar scene. Recent work by Victorian DNSP Powercor on some problematic parts of its network is enabling more solar power from rooftop panels to be exported to the grid. going back into the grid with no batteries. endstream endobj 351 0 obj <>/Filter/FlateDecode/Index[17 289]/Length 31/Size 306/Type/XRef/W[1 1 1]>>stream The fact is that Powercor does not set an upper limit on the size solar panel system you can install, up to 30kW. Do the inverters prevent the production of energy by the solar panels when an export limit would otherwise be exceeded? Finally! When a home is exported limited, all the power the solar inverter can produce is available for the home to use. I think that the limiter can connect only to one inverter and not two at the same time. Powercor wrote back with the following response:"Due to the size of t . Also note that for new installations in WA, only residences with inverters of 5 kilowatts or less can receive the states, Western Australias Western Power area: Perth and South West WA. Thus if my system is at maximum output, and I am using 2kW, only 3 kW is being exported to the grid. 0000037686 00000 n I prefer a profile that just has the voltages set to a high voltage threshold, and if I have to sacrifice V-W mode, so be it. Generation sources can be, but are not limited to solar, wind and batteries. In reality, the losses will be considerably less. 0000006578 00000 n Under another option to . So if an inverter that is export limited to 5 kilowatts is providing 8 kilowatts of power, none of it will go to waste provided the home is consuming at least 3 kilowatts at the time. Unfortunately, the meter companies and inverter manufacturers cant get their shit together, and the utility meters refuse to talk to the inverters. Rubbing salt into the wound were situations where someone was zero export limited while their next door neighbour wasnt.